Kpfiwa

Thank you for the work on Theodor Fontane.

The one thing that I am concerned about is the list of categories. Thus far you have "Autor | Literatur (Deutsch) | Drama | Lyrik | Lyrics | Deutscher | Mann | Man". I wonder if they are all needed. If we are using "Autor" pages having this again as a category may not be very useful. "Mann" and "Man" won't do much good since that will include a large majority of all authors. "Literatur (Deutsch)" is ambiguous. Is it for writers from Germany, or is it for pages in the German language. Following what ThomasV has done for French I would recomend the format Category:de:Literatur or Category:de:Gedichte as a way of showing that a page is in German. This will also have the benefit that when there is a list of categories the German language ones will be together so that interested people can find them more easily. The category "Deutscher" may need to be enentually divided into sub categories according to the kind of work that a particular German did.

This matter of categories is very tricky to make work well, especially when many languages are involved. Doing this right will be the key to some day having this become the best site like this in the world. Eclecticology 19:53, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the hints. I'll change it ASAP. Fontane will be completed in the next weeks, with a lot of Poems, Lyrics, Essays, Stories and so on; most titles of the lists will be filled with life. Pardon, my German is really better then English.--Mauki 21:02, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Another tip: It is not necessary to have the long title Gedicht (Fontane):Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland when the shorter Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland will do. In some cases, like "Mein Leben" which can be used by many authors, then Mein Leben (Fontane) will be enough.

OK, maybe [Gedicht (Fontane):] is obsolete. Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland is the original title used in Germany. Fontane (and other) prefered such snakes and everybody will search just for this snake they learned in school. Another example of a popular modern drama: "Vater, armer Vater, Mutter hing dich in den Schrank und ich bin ganz krank" or "Liebling, lass uns Tauben vergiften gehen im Park". Its courios but true. In case of "Mein Leben" there ist an article (Autor:Friedrich Nietzsche); better moved to Mein Leben (Nietzsche).--Mauki 10:55, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree about the Nietzche article. I like the way you used the word "snake"; it fits very well with these titles. Is this a common usage in German? As a rough rule, if the title cannot be put in one line it's too long. How we divide these titles is a question of good judgement. It can't be done with a lot of rules. The full proper title still needs to be mentioned early in the introduction of the article. Eclecticology 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry about your English. The talk page is very informal; if we seniors understand what we say that is the only important thing. I would be ashamed to try writing German, and to read it I need a dictionary. :-) Eclecticology 02:00, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Many Thanks. I really have to lern how to handle Wikisource. I wrote a lot of articles in the german Wikipedia. They have really other rules and prefer a lot of links an categories. For nearly every (or each?) article the discussion page is much more bigger than the real information. They prefer to collect all about the theme, even things very far related. You'll find the biggest articles worldwide. Im my opinion monsters. I prefer real information, not stories and opinions (idiological, political etc.) about the theme. So I changed to Wikisource, Wikicommons and other related international sites. The style of cooperation is real better, not a german civil war between authors and admins. I feel better here.

"Every" probably is better, but "each" wouid not be criticized. The difference is subtle. The perspective for "every" is more global, while "each" tends to stress the items as individuals. This is like the arguments about the Christian Trinity in the middle ages. Was God one person in three parts, or were there three persons that came together to make one God. For Wikipedia, the arguments that we see prove that there are many mediaeval Christians alive to-day.

The "german civil war" is repeated in most languages. One big difference here is that the author said what he said, and it is no place to argue whether he was right. This makes the "Neutral Point of View" arguments less important. I'm pleased to hear that you prefer the international site; there was a big argument when some people wanted separate sites for each language. The present situation almost forces people to find solutions together, and it makes us all richer for it. It is a tremendous and very interesting challenge.

Categories are very difficult to make right. Besides the obvious challenges for how you do this in a multilingual environment it is also important to look at the size of categories. If they are too big or there are too many small ones they lose their effectiveness. Eclecticology 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A question: To delete a unwanted, wrong placed or bad article (by example I cannot move some categories) in the de:wiki there is a template {{löschen}} to sign a quick delete order or {{Löschantrag}} for deletion in 7 days after a long and war-alike discussion. I miss similar functions in the other wikis (not the war). I searched in all related articles but I don't found anything about it. What to do, where to search, can you help me?

It looks like you already found Wikisource:Proposed deletions. When adding to it please put new entries at the bottom. Eclecticology 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Another question: Fontane used in some poems slang. For readers not so fit in German I like to translate the words/sentences in understandable language in a footnote. Is there a practical way to create the links at the same page or can I use the normal HTML syntax?--Mauki 10:55, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Footnotes in our software are a very awkward. It's still a matter of using whatever works. I would be happy to see more of this kind of feature in the software, but I can also be patient. In some articles we will need to separate footnotes that were put there by the original author, and new ones such as you propose. Eclecticology 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Effi Briest (Fontane)

Effi Briest (Fontane) -- Ist now COMPLETE -- puh --. I hope it is good and without bigger mistakes. I'm content -- for today -- tomorrow I'll find, what to do better. But Theodor Fontane wrote su much, it is work for a year to transfer all!--Mauki 01:29, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Kategorisierung

Hallo Gadacz. Ich habe mir gerade die Liste der deutschsprachigen Texte angesehen und da fällt mir auf, dass diese Liste durch die Erfassung aller Kapitel von Werken Fontanes sehr unübersichtlich wird. Ich werde daher die Category:Deutsch aus den einzelnen Kapiteln herausnehmen, zumal die Fontane-Kategorien ohnehin Unterkategorien sind. Gruß Jofi 12:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)