Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Aug 2005 - Sep 2005

Wikibooks Card Catalog Office

I've started a little project (if you can call it that) over at Wikibooks and I'd like some input from Wikisource as well on a certain aspect of my proposal as well. The link to the project is: b:Wikibooks:Card Catalog Office

In going over some of the common mistakes for new users on Wikibooks, we've noticed a large number of raw source texts that often get simply dumped onto Wikibooks. In a bid to help point out that Wikisource does exist, we are suggesting that we integrate both Wikibooks and Wikisource into this cataloging system... and perhaps even make it Wikimedia-wide in general for similar content. Wikibooks and Wikisource are the ones most affected by this proposal.

Essentially, you can have a "one-stop shopping experience" to find a "book" in the "library" to all Wikimedia content. Of course (I don't know if this is getting snobbish or not) all of Wikipedia would be only one of the "entries" in this library catalog, as would Wiktionary. This is book-style content that would be cataloged, and it would include cataloging systems like the Library of Congress and Dewey Decimal type cataloging, in addition to custom cataloging systems developed just for Wikimedia. The category systems for each project (Wikibooks and Wikisource) would stay seperated, and I'm not asking for content to be moved either. This is just a linking guide to combine an index between the two projects.

I'm also willing to accept if the "regulars" here on Wikisource think this is a bad idea, but I would like to get some input. There are some technical aspects that certainly need to be coordinated or even invented, but I think it could benefit both projects and draw help and assistance from a wider audience as well. --Robert Horning 19:06, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

It's an interesting proposal. I assume then that if you looked up "Chocolate" you would find: articles relating to chocolate, recipes relating to chocolate, source texts about chocolate, images of chocolate, news about chocolate etc. A "cross-wiki" way of categorising as such? You would probably run into problems with systems such as the Dewey Decimal system due to the fact that new media like Computer Games would not be adequately covered. I do like the idea (in the same way you can access the different searches on Google), I just think it might need a bit more fleshing out before I'm fully convinced ;) Greg Robson 09:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't think any one particular system of organization or searching is adequate in every situation. Google, for instance, is a good word search system when you know what you are trying to find. It really doesn't do a good job of showing slightly related web pages that may not use the exact wording you used for the search term. Library cataloging systems can do that to some degree (they aren't perfect either) and there are other approaches including the catagories within each Wikimedia project.

Right now we are trying to get things organized, so if there is anybody here that would like to help out, they are invited as well. The long-term goal is to get Wikisource included, as Wikisource does have book-like materials that are similar in nature to Wikibooks, and can also be accomdated by a structure like this. I'll give more feedback later once we got a signficant portion of Wikibooks organized. What is interesting is that this isn't really the first effort to do this, but there have been some systemic problems with the other approaches in the past that we are trying to overcome, including problems of trying to maintain a huge number of pages that generally were considered more of a chore to take care of than something anybody was interested in working on. --Robert Horning 11:52, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm a bit unsure of how I can be of help. Usually I don't work on other projects, as I've got my hands full here, but as this is something that will affect Wikisource greatly, I'm willing to work on the project. | 12:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Oral Recordings of Texts at Wikisource

Does anyone have any ideas on how Wikisource might incorporate oral recordings of the texts that are kept here? My initial thought is that while such recordings should obviously be uploaded at Commons (not here), the texts here can and should have direct links to them. By clicking a link, one could listen to an oral reading while viewing the text on the screen.Dovi 12:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I think you know w:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia? People at English Wikipedia seem to place the recordings at their Wiki, but I think the Commons should be the right place for it. --Jofi 21:56:10, 2005-08-08 (UTC)

I can understand the recording of a Wikipedia article being placed on en.wikipedia, because it is only useful for that wiki alone. I was thinking along different lines: Suppose we have a Latin text at the Latin Wikisource, a Latin-French bilingual edition at the French Wikisource, and a Latin-English edition at the English Wikisource. A recording of the Latin text would have to kept at the Commons, so that it can be linked to from all three Wikisources (this consideration would be irrelevant to Wikipedia articles, because the language versions are not identical or even close).

What I am trying to think through is this: Just like all the Wikipedias classify Commons' media for encyclopedic uses, so to all the Wikisources could/should classify source-text-recordings on Commons for library purposes. Our goal, after all, is to be a library of published texts, and good libraries also hold recordings.Dovi 19:14, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it would be useful if the same (supposed) Latin text were at Latin Wikisource and at English, French, ... Wikisource together with the translation. I would prefer a software solution, where it is possible to select two language versions of a text and display them together in two seperate columns. I already thought about making this a feature request but since the developers obviously don't have the time to set up the Wikisources, I didn't discussed the idea yet.

But besides this it will be possible to link to any Wikimedia file from every project, so it doesn't really matter if the recordings are at the Commons or the appropriate Wikisource. --Jofi 20:30:42, 2005-08-11 (UTC)

There is no conflict with the two-column software solution. Everyone would love a feature like that, and it could be used as above, only better! What I was talking about was an additional feature, that for a bilingual text an oral reading could be linked to for both languages.Dovi 17:18, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Dovi, is there any problem to use [[Media:blah_blah_blah.ogg|blah blah blah recording]]? If i Understand Correctly, this is how links to ogg files hosted on Commons should be done. If this does not work for files hosted in Commons, file a bug report. And please use "Media:", not "Image:". -- Nahum 14:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

PDFs acceptable?

I have a crapload of public domain PDFs of interesting articles, government documents, and things like that. Are PDFs acceptable here? I don't have the time or inclination to type out the contents personally, and some of them are many dozens of pages long. They don't seem quite appropriate for Commons, which seems to include all media except text. --Fastfission 00:14, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

No, PDFs as such should not be uploaded here. Sometimes you can extract the content with pdftotext (on Linux) or equivalent tools and post the content here. Otherwise OCR should be used to get the text. Yann 07:53, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

As well, if you use Adobe, you can hover the cursor over the text and select it--just like you would do to select text on a web page. It cuts down drastically on the time it takes to transfer the contents of the PDF to a website. | 14:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Although I don't know Adobe, I think it is only possible if the PDF is made from text, but but not if it is made of images, like [1] ? Yann 19:06, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Right. I guess I should have clarified. If the PDF is an image (even an image of text), you cannot select the text. You can only select the text from the PDF if it was a text document or something of the sort made into a PDF. | 19:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Usually all old texts in PDF files are images and not "real" texts. If the quality of a text doesn't keep perfect if you magnify it, you can be sure it's an image. You can also try the "text selection" button or something like that. If the PDF files are images, the only way to get the text is typing them manually or (usually the better way) using OCR recognition. But if someone has a text as image, that is not freely available at the internet, I think he should be allowed or even be encouraged to place the files here, to give others the possibility to extract the text. --Jofi 20:37:30, 2005-08-11 (UTC)

That's an idea. We could set up a page listing PDFs that need to be typed and made into real pages here. | 21:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Copyright could be a problem in some cases: If a text itself is PD but the PDF is from an annotated version, then it wouldn't be possible. But these are most likely rare cases. As far as I know there is no lack of disk space, but if after a period of time nobody did type the PDF, it still could be deleted. --Jofi 21:31:03, 2005-08-11 (UTC)

If the PDF is publicly available somewhere, there is no need to copy it here. But a page with a list of URLs could be useful. Yann 17:57, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I've got a number of PDFs that could be copied here--both URLs and files. What if we set up a page like Wikisource:Files to be copied and posted the links there?| 18:04, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I think it should rather be PDF/documents that need to be OCRed. Yann 18:39, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

The PDFs I have, though, don't need to be OCR'd. They're text documents. I know of a million others that are images, however. I guess another name is in order.| 18:53, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Many of the PDFs are not publicly available elsewhere online. Turning them into straight text would be somewhat difficult — they are often formatted quite poorly (they are old Manhattan Project documents, most of them). Because such sources are only useful if they are reliable, copies of the original images would have to also be able to be viewed as well... so anyway, they don't sound appropriate here, which is too bad. --Fastfission 19:22, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

What PDFs are you talking about? The ones I have are quite reliable and would be able to be put here.| 19:46, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

If the PDFs are not available elsewhere, then we can upload them here until they get OCRed and the texts added here. Yann 20:38, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe the original PDFs should stay even after they have been added to Wikisource as plain text. So it would be possible to see if there are no mistakes in the OCRed or manually typed texts. If there are problems with disc space some day, the PDFs can still be deleted, but if they are deleted and the user who scanned them is not here anymore, it wouldn't be possible to see if there are mistakes in the text. --Jofi 21:47:55, 2005-08-12 (UTC)

I have some experience in converting text PDFs into plain text, but I'm quite busy until mid-September. If you want, you can send them to me (use the mail user feature of wikisource and I'll reply to use from my email address) and I'll convert them when I'll have some free time. :-) Bogdan 09:44, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Judicial Opinions?

I am pretty sure Judicial Opinions or court opinions (at least in the United States) are public domain. However, Wexis bills millions annually for access to published opinions. How could we make a start getting opinions on wikisource?

Yes, as there were published elsewhere, they can be added here. Yann 18:36, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

You can try Oyez.com. They have court opinions for free. I'm sure a ".gov" site also has them for free.| 18:46, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Language Updates

Today it's 3 months since the voting for language subdomains closed. Perhaps at least the languages that want to start from an empty wiki could be already started. --Jofi 21:49:43, 2005-08-12 (UTC)

I think as soon is ThomasV returns from his holiday this should be done. As far as I understand, everything is ready: Pages can be transferred and we have a list of languages that are ready.Dovi 03:49, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

At last! I was already wondering what's going on, as there were no notifications for normal and lower users about the latest work. --Schandolf 16:05, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

First of all, information is available to all (that's wiki)! Secondly, there is no more info (as far as I know) besides the discussions that have been going on here. Thirdly, I agree with you that we really should have at least semi-regular updates about what's going on. I'm going to ask some people.Dovi 17:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Dovi's right. I haven't heard about what's going lately, either. I really want the English sub-domain set up, but the import function isn't working yet. ThomasV usually handles asking what's going on (I don't understand IRC), but he's on vacation now. Where would we ask those questions?| 18:51, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Angela is always extraordinarily helpful and supportive, so I dropped her a note already. Thomas had been in contact with Tim Starling, who may possibly be the developer who sets this up, so it would be good to ask him too for an update. I also can't figure out IRC (though Thomas tried to explain to me how it's quite easy... :-).Dovi 19:33, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

PS Wasn't there something earlier about someone doing a mass transfer of 750 pages successfully?Dovi 19:40, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I think Brion did an import of a number of Sanskrit pages to test out the function. But to this moment, the import feature still only allows us to import pages to the Sanskrit Wikisource, nowhere else.| 19:53, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I'd just assumed this was going ahead now and I'm not sure what the hold up is. Did the Sanskrit Wikisource ever exist? Neither Tim or Brion are on IRC at the moment, but I'll try to find out more when they are. Angela 18:54, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I think he imported them from the Sanskrit Wikipedia to just plain old Wikisource. You're right: there is no Sanskrit Wikisource. The import page doesn't quite explain a whole lot of stuff, so I don't know what the page really means. But a huge batch of Sanskrit text was transwikied to here.| 19:10, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it was imported from w:sa:ऋग्वेदः to ऋग्वेदः. Yann 19:15, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

This may have been answered elsewhere previously, but if so I am unable to find it. If and when the wikisource language sub-domains are set up, will the {{wikisource}} and {{wikisourcepar}} template/links to source material still function correctly, or will they need to be modified somehow to point to the material in the new domain(s)? --cjllw | TALK 09:29, 2005 August 17 (UTC)

If redirects are left in place, then perhaps they can continue working as before. Interwiki redirects would need to be enabled for that. Angela 04:22, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I came back today from vacation, and I just tried to talk to Tim on IRC, but he does not seem to be in front of his computer. I posted a request on meta, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages. I added a new section for wikisource, and I put the 15 languages selected by Dovi (see archives). I suppose future admins should to create an account on meta, and to add their signature in front of each request. So please sign there... ThomasV 13:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I added a link to Wikisource:Language domain requests there. I don't know if it is neccessary to create a new list of supporters at meta. --Jofi 17:15:11, 2005-08-19 (UTC)

I just had a chat with Tim and Brion. Tim is not interested in doing it now, and brion will not do it unless he is requested by a board member. I asked him if a request from Angela would be ok for that, and he said yes. So Angela, it seems that you are the only person who can unlock things... ThomasV 08:06, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I emailed Brion about this yesterday evening, so hopefully the new wikis will be available soon. Angela 04:22, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

There are now blank wikis at:

• http://ar.wikisource.org
• http://da.wikisource.org
• http://de.wikisource.org
• http://el.wikisource.org
• http://en.wikisource.org
• http://es.wikisource.org
• http://fr.wikisource.org
• http://gl.wikisource.org
• http://it.wikisource.org
• http://la.wikisource.org
• http://nl.wikisource.org
• http://pl.wikisource.org
• http://pt.wikisource.org
• http://ro.wikisource.org
• http://ru.wikisource.org

en.wikisource.org is the current wiki, which en redirects to. Brion said "Given past history and the fact that en.wikisource.org is a redirect to the current wikisource.org, we'll probably want to rename the current wikisource.org wiki to en.wikisource.org, then move the non-english bits away." Does this seem ok to everyone? Does anyone understand the Import function and how to do that now? Angela 10:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Since most articles are in English, moving this Wikisource to en would be the easiest way. But this Wikisource should stay for international texts without own subdomain. The Import function only works for admins. But it should be quit simple to use it. --Jofi 10:17:11, 2005-08-23 (UTC)

great! many thanks! ThomasV 10:20, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki links are not working. AFAIK this would be needed for Special:Import. --Jofi 10:26:54, 2005-08-23 (UTC)

Angela: I understand shell access is needed for that, the web interface is not practical and requires interwiki links. I could do that for French, and a few other languages. ThomasV 10:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

The interwiki links are a known issue. I mentioned this to Brion earlier. Are you saying shell access is needed for the import, or just for setting up the interwiki links? Angela 12:50, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

there are several thousand pages to be moved. is that easy to do with the web interface? ThomasV 13:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Jofi. Just copy this Wikisource to "en" and let us purge the non-English articles. I know that there are thousands of English pages, and I don't know how long it will take to transfer them over. I'd just rather have to delete the pages that aren't English than transfer over the ones that are.| 13:59, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Médiawiki

Bonjour à tous,

Je pense qu'il serait intéressant pour les lecteurs d'avoir une page donnant le détail de l'installation de Mediawiki et de la base de données de Wikisource. Contrairement à la Wikipédia qui contient beaucoup d'ébauches et qui évolue plus rapidement, Wikisource possède, je pense, une plus grande stabilité qui ne rendrait pas nécessaire des téléchargements fréquents (et d'ailleurs, le lecteur pourrait très bien compléter par lui-même en faisant des copier-coller de ce qui l'intéresse). De plus, si l'on considère la taille de la base de données par langage, la taille du fichier doit être assez raisonnable (quoique pour l'anglais, il doit bien y avoir plus de 100 Mo). Ceci permettrait à chacun d'avoir à disposition, sans être connecté, une bibliothèque dans la langue de son choix, et l'accès aux pages longues serait sans doute plus rapide. J'ai cherché des explications pour l'installation de Mediawiki, et je pense avoir compris comment cela s'installe avec easyphp ; je vais donc placer cela sur une page ; en revanche, quelqu'un sait-il comment faire pour installer une base de données ? Marc 18:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, "sources.special" from http://dumps.wikimedia.org/ contains Wikisource. So the current versions of all Wikisource articles are 206.04 MiB big. But I don't think that there are many people willing to install mediawiki just to read the articles offline. They need apache, mysgql and php (see meta:Help:Installation). It would be easier to use simple HTML, but I don't know if there are tools to convert the dumps to HTML pages. But if you want to write a description how to use Mediawiki for Wikisource, it surely wouldn't be bad. --Jofi 20:24:38, 2005-08-17 (UTC)

Bonsoir, je viens d'installer Mediawiki, et cela prend moins de 10 minutes. Cela me semble d'une grande simplicité. En revanche, il est vraiment très difficile de trouver de l'aide pour ce genre d'installation (j'avoue que j'ai eu de la chance de voir une page sur la Wikipédia, et cela faisait très longtemps que j'attendais des explications simples). En revanche je n'ai pas trouvé comment installer la base de donnée avec Easyphp. Marc 20:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

When I installed the programs, it took some days until everything worked properly. But maybe I just had bad luck or it is easier with EasyPHP (I don't know this program). Maybe you could add your experiences at meta:Newcomers guide to installing on Windows and ask there for help. --Jofi 21:01:57, 2005-08-17 (UTC)

Author pages and PD templates

Somebody browsing an author page is, in principle, primarily interested in the question: "what texts by this author does wikisource have?" However, many author pages are really confuse. I noticed that some author pages have, in addition to the (already debated) multilingual biography list, a template explaining why the works of this author are in the public domain. (example: Template:Author-PD-old-70)

I have nothing against making such a statement; however, I believe this template does not improve legibility. For an example, have a look at: Author:John Dryden. This page contains only 3 words (The Indian Queen) that are relevant to the above question. All the rest is noise! Can you imagine how unpractical this can be, to someone not familiar with wikisource ?

So, my suggestion is: why don't we put these statements on the corresponding "talk" page instead? we already do put meta information on the talk page for many texts, so why not for author pages? I think it would not harm to keep author pages clean... ThomasV 06:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't like the PD templates at all (almost ALL of our authors are PD--the ones that aren't should get a template--so having a template is redundant). But if we must have them, I agree with putting them on the talk pages. No need to clutter it up. And I noticed, Thomas, that you've already started changing the biographical sections on author pages.  :) Actually that's good, because I was going to change them once we moved to en.wikisource.org.| 13:51, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

well, I too do not like it at all. it is too flashy, and useless, since as you said, almost all our authors are PD. But the person who did it seems to have spent some time on it, given the number of pages that have this template... so I was proposing a compromise. the talk page seem adequate, except for the category tag included in the template. shall move the template to the talk page while adding the category tag to the author page (I did it for a few pages), or just move the template to the talk page (which implies that the talk page will be categorized), or declare that these categories are useless and remove them from the templates? ThomasV 16:11, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd go with the first: move the template to the talk page, but keep the author page categorized (that way the author talk page isn't categorized--that'd just be odd). I'd rather not even have them, but you're right in that the person who did this spent a lot of time doing it; it'd be a shame to do away with it entirely.| 18:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Scanning techniques

I suggest we have a section in Wikisource on the techniques of scanning texts. Many newbies might be confused and think that we only accept texts which already exist in scanned form on the Web somewhere. Where might the link to such a section be placed on the opening pages? I scan and OCR printed documents regularly and shall be happy to draft something but not until mid-September when I am am back from my holiday. Apwoolrich 15:56, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, very useful. There was some discussions on Scriptorium about this. Should be copied there. Yann 17:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

en.wikisource.org

Hello everyone! I am currently away on holiday, and will be until the end of next week. Today is the first day I've had a bit of internet access.

Congratulations to Thomas, Angela, Jofi, and everyone else who got the domains started! And thanks to Brion for doing the hands-on work.

Angela mentioned en.wikisource above. I understand that Brion wanted to do this as it was done in previous projects, but there are some real differences here, as we've discussed in the past, including the need for a sort of "metawikisource" projectwide issued that will also include an appropriate place languages without their own domains.

The idea of a "meta" without a language prefix (wikisource.org) as opposed to a redirect or a static portal is indeed different than the other projects. We really are proposing a somewhat different model.

A real en.wikisource will also be needed for proper language links.

I'd like to get feedback from others on this, and see where can go from here. Forgive me if I only show up intermittantly.Dovi 06:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

yes, I agree with you. but for the moment I believe we should first focus on the other bits (interwiki links, moving pages), before we request new domains. ThomasV 06:48, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I didn't do anything, so the congratulations go to the others ;-). How about using "int.wikisource.org" for the multilangual part? This would make using the interwiki links easier. --Jofi 15:48:48, 2005-08-24 (UTC)

Subcats and Category:Authors

I'm of the opinion that Wikisource ought to be as liberal as Wikipedia when it comes to categories and subcategories — we should have lots of interesting paths for those readers who only care about speeches, or poets, or Presidential addresses. User:ThomasV, however, appears to believe basically the opposite — that categories should only be used for administration (e.g. Category:Authors), and the main "paths of approach" for Wikisource should be handcrafted portal pages such as Wikisource:Authors. We've "clashed" (in a friendly manner) recently when I started adding new subcats of Category:Authors (such as Category:Poets), but he wants to keep the actual Category:Authors page completely free of subcats for aesthetic reasons. I'd like a consensus on the role of the category system on Wikisource... and naturally I'd most like the consensus to agree with me! :) Opinions? --Quuxplusone 07:17, 24 August 2005 (UTC) [See also: User:Quuxplusone#Categories, User talk:ThomasV#Subcategories of Category:Authors]

wow... please also read the discussion on my talk page if you want to know what this is about... :-) ThomasV 07:48, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

My desires for categories are only to use categories that are useful. I am not a fan of using Category:Authors, Category:Authors-A, etc., because we have Wikisource:Authors, Wikisource:Authors-A, etc. However, I am a fan of having a category for poets, speech writers, hymnists (I created this category a while ago). And of course, having a Category:Speeches and such are not a bad idea, either. Those kinds of categories I believe are very useful to browsers here at Wikisource. I wish there could be a way to categorize a page but choose how it shows up in the category (so we could get rid of that nasty "Author:" for every link). Maybe we should propose a bug for it?| 13:39, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, as it is now we have three different "list of authors" mechanisms: (1) the "Wikisource:Authors" portal, (2) the "Category:Authors" cat, and (3) the actual set of pages with "Author:" in the title, which MediaWiki doesn't let us see easily. All three are redundant, but out of sync with each other. I'd say, let the portal be the "official" uncategorized list of authors, and let Category:Authors be used the same way it would be on Wikipedia. AFAICT, ThomasV doesn't think subcategories ought to be used — which is tantamount to saying the MediaWiki category system shouldn't be used, since its hierarchical structure is the most important feature. Without the hierarchical structure of subcats, the user can't navigate to his area of interest; he has to keep guessing, "Is it Category:Poets of the Romantic period? Is it Category:Verse authors?"

Still, I'm willing to compromise (I think!). ThomasV doesn't want to touch Category:Authors; so shall I simply create a new Category:Authors2 and add the subcats of Category:Authors there, plus a link from "Authors" to "Authors2" so the user can find it without guessing? Seems very hackish, but I'm willing to try it. --Quuxplusone 15:18, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with ThomasV about the screen real estate issue but the template on the current page takes up most of my screen anyway. Does anyone here have direct access to the Wikisource code base? It would probably be pretty easy to just list the category members before the subcategories. (It looks like you would just need to swap lines 155-161 with lines 162-167 in CategoryPage.php.) Then your authors would still come first and could be counted properly but you would also have all of the proper subcategories in the place where they belong. Also, once we go to subdomains, we could fix the way the author pages show up on the category page by removing the Author: prefix from those pages. --CSN 22:02, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Are the categories of authors by letter necessary. If the template:AuthorsList is changed to something similar to template:CategoryTOC, then it is easy to navigate between the different letters in Category:Authors and only a single category will be needed instead of 27 different categories. /EnDumEn 22:32, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

well, I created the categories by letter in order to have "two letters" grouping. For example, within Authors-A, it will be possible to group authors beginning with Aa, Ab, Ac, etc. this feature is not implemented yet (see bug 2802) but hopefully I will fix it soon. when we have an important number of authors, it will not hurt to be able to sort them by "two letters" prefixes. ThomasV 22:42, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Q., of course you are very welcome to begin categorizing pages. That is what the category system was designed for. Any concern that I would have about adding author type categories to Category:Authors is that they might be buried several pages down which limits the ease of finding and accessing them. Instead you might want to consider creating a Category:Author types (or whatever) and put the categories you create in that one. I would then suggest adding both the Authors and Author types categories to the same parent. And of course you can also reference them in the category page as a 'see also'. —Mike 00:23, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Bot Policy for Wikisource

I plan on using a bot to upload the next 9 books of The Rig Veda. Is there a bot policy for Wikisource? Typically I would just upload them using my master username since they are all new pages, but it looks to be about 600 pages total. I don't want to clutter up recent changes too badly. Also, I might do some other large works after this one. Do I need to apply for bot status? --CSN 22:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

it might be good to apply for a bot flag. ThomasV 10:18, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Um, could someone make me a bot? --CSNbot 01:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

you have to apply on meta. ThomasV 03:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. The request is here. I think I need approval from the community. Or at least not disapproval. --CSN 20:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Is there a lits for bots ? If not create one and advertise it here. Then I can give you bot status after a few days if no opposition. Yann 18:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Yann and ThomasV, sorry for getting testy on Requests for permissions#CSNbot. I just want to get back to uploading things. --CSN 22:29, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

list here: Wikisource:Robots ThomasV 18:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

CSN: you have my approval. however it might make sense to wait until the en subdomain is launched. (for the moment en.wikisource.org points to this site, but it might change soon). unless you want two bots, of course... ThomasV 06:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I will eventually be running the bot on multiple wikisources. I would like to tackle breaking http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible,_Martin_Luther_Translation into smaller sections, etc. I stopped working on The Rig Veda to allow for the language domain transition, but while I wait I figured that if I got a bot flag on wikisource, then getting it on en, de, or whatever would be alot easier. --CSN 00:05, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Bot status given to CSNbot. Yann 21:10, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. If an admin on en could bot me up over there too when that domain is created I would appreciate it. --CSN 20:27, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

bot status is not given by local admins. that is why you had to apply on meta (and will have to again) ThomasV 21:14, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

moving pages to subdomains

Brion will move pages to subdomains using php scripts. We need, for each subdomain, a list of the pages to be moved. Please indicate here the complete list of pages that you want to move to your subdomain.(I know scriptorium is not the best place to post this, but I want to have this information quickly, so please keep it here)

For articles: the the list made by User:ThomasBot will be used by default. if the list provided by the bot has too many errors, please enter another list. if you manually edit the list created by the robot, I will stop maintaining it, in order to preserve your manual edits.

For non-articles (Categories, Templates, Wikisource): please create a list in a separate page, in the User: namespace. ThomasV 07:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

domain	pages in main namespace	other pages	status
ar.wikisource.org	-	-	done
da.wikisource.org	-	-	done
de.wikisource.org	-	-	done
el.wikisource.org	-	-	done
es.wikisource.org	-	-	done
fr.wikisource.org	-	-	done
gl.wikisource.org	-	-	done
it.wikisource.org	-	-	done
la.wikisource.org	-	-	done
pt.wikisource.org	-	-	done
sr.wikisource.org	-	-	done
ro.wikisource.org	-	here	done
nl.wikisource.org	-	none	done
en.wikisource.org	-	here	done
sv.wikisource.org	-	here	done
ru.wikisource.org	-	here	done
zh.wikisource.org	-	here	done
ja.wikisource.org	-	here	done
hr.wikisource.org	-	here	done
ko.wikisource.org	-	here	done

NOTE: Please DO NOT edit the lists created by the robot manually! If you remove a text manually, the text still exists, and still has to be classified. it makes things really complicated for me. If there are misclassified entries, please add category tags to these texts, so that the robot knows where the misclassified texts belong. The bot will be back a few hours later and it will update its lists. If the robot does not recognize your language properly, create another list from scratch!

(exception: russian, because it is too late now)

questions

Will the history of each page be transfered as well?| 13:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

this is what I've been told :-) ThomasV 13:25, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

What's happening with en? :) Ambi 14:54, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

So what is happening with en? --CSN 22:24, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

read above ThomasV 14:55, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Thomas for assisting in transferring Pages to the Subdomains , for the Arabic Project i have transferred some pages manually , if u can transfer the other pages in ur list that would be nice ,i have removed the main page and some persian pages from The arabic transfer list so the list now is ready . Best Regards --Chaos 16:06, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

What will be done with Slovenian pages? See: Category:Slovensko. --193.77.23.195 16:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

As of right now, there is no one requesting a Slovenian Wikisource, so those pages will stay here. When it's created, obviously they will all be transferred over to that wiki.| 16:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I have created those pages (at that time as Eleassar777). Where and how should I made the request? --Eleassar 16:46, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

What's happens for : user account pages ? pictures ? François Rey 17:10, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

user account pages will not be moved. pictures should go on commons I guess. ThomasV 17:12, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Will talk pages be moved with the articles, or do I need to put those in the special list?--Christian S 18:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I will ask brion to move talk pages as well. hopefully the talk page always goes in the same domain as the page it refers to :-) ThomasV 18:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, that would save me a lot of work, and my time is quite limited right now. --Christian S 18:28, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Hrm, actually I need to run a second pass for the talk pages. Moment. :D --Brion VIBBER 07:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, talk pages have been moved in as well now for the above-done wikis. --69.230.199.152 09:21, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I will wait until german and danish are ready, then I will contact brion. ThomasV 19:48, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Is there any timeline as far as when this is going to be done? Is there going to be an English wikisource? Is someone in charge of this effort? Should we be avoiding further posting until everything is moved? --CSN 20:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

very good question :-). I am just as impatient as everybody else... I sent an e-mail to Brion a few hours ago, so that he transfers the languages that are marked as ready here. I cannot tell you how long it will take. ThomasV 20:04, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. The reason I asked about the english wikisource is that there doesn't appear to be one. If you try going to en.wikisource.org, it just redirects to wikisource.org. All of the other subdomains seem to be up. I was just wondering if it got overlooked. --CSN 20:15, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Once everything's sorted out, this wiki will be moved to en.wikisource.org. If desired the pages that were moved offsite can be deleted from here (but leaving some kind of redirect would be very, very kind!) --Brion VIBBER 07:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I started a bot that writes redirects. ThomasV 08:16, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

So does this mean that we are not able to have a wikisource.org to post material which currently does not have a subdomain?| 13:33, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

hmm.. I guess brion did not get that we want two wikis: one for english, and one for the material that does not have a subdomain. do not worry about that. I think we'll request the creation of en in the next wave of creations. ThomasV 13:56, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

For both this (en.wikisource) and the interwiki links problem, I think it is very important that we draw Brion's attention to the material on Wikisource:Language domain requests. Then if what we proposed seems reasonable he can do it, but if it raises any problems he can respond to-the-point and let us know what the options are, either right here or on that page. Brion, if you read this, we'd love your direct feedback!Dovi 20:22, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Can anybody assume, when will be next moving pages to subdomains (for Ru, Zh, Ja)? Some users at ru.wikisource do not wish to wait for import and have started to create articles anew. Should I stop them?--ajvol 09:00, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I want to wait until all the languages listed here are ready (hr to be added). The point is, Brion does not want to create new domains every week or so, so it is better to group demands. I guess after this second wave of creation, I too will take a rest, because this has been a lot of work. This means that new requests will have to be done and supervised by someone else. so, I believe it would be unfair not to wait until en and nl are ready. I've been trying to contact the dutch people here so that they ready their list, but no answer. In the meantime, if people add text to ru, ask them to check that there is no risk of collision with a page here. ThomasV 09:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

russian

Greetings, a couple of questions:

1) for the Russian list which ThomasBot (thanks, thanks a lot! :) generated, I prepared a list of about 20 entries that are in the languages other than Russian. Where would I post this list?

I guess the remaining ones are ukrainian? why dont'you create pages in your user space, where you sort it out. For example User:Introvert/russian, User:Introvert/ukrainian, User:Introvert/other_cyrillic.

Thanks Thomas, will do (the remaining are Ukranian, Belorussian, Bulgarian and one Macedonian and one Adygeian) - Introvert 23:45, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

ready with the list of russian non-articles and omissions + the list of exceptions in other cyrillic langs which are on the bot's list for Russian. Let me know how else can I help with the other_cyrillic list or with the lists of "unknowns". Thanks much - Introvert 02:36, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

thanks for the list of exception. sorry if I was not clear, but there needs to be two lists, not three. can you remove the exceptions from the first list? otherwise they will be copied to ru as well. thanks ThomasV 06:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

done --.:Ajvol:. 06:58, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I just updated the User:Introvert/Russian Categories and other pages to be moved, added 3 images. - Introvert 20:45, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

2) Another user edited the Russian list to exclude entries in their language (Serbian) before. I found an entry in Serbian that was missed but on the other hand, am finding mistakenly excluded Russian entries. Are you planning on restoring maintenance of the Russian list please? or if not, should I go ahead and continue manual editing right in there.

put the stolen russian entries in your russian list, and remove them from the serbian list.

I will tell the serbian admin about the forgotten page

I can restart the bot if you want, but then all the serbian pages will show up again in the list, it will not help you....

Ok, I hope I got it (although, hmm, if all Serbian pages would have been moved by then to the Serbian wiki domain..?  :)

So could you please clarify: I am to manually edit out the ThomasBot..Russian list, I am to prepare the list of Categories, Wikisource, Templates, etc. and post yet another separate list to a subpage as above, then all pages from both lists will be moved by Brion's bot. Does this sound right? - Introvert 23:48, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

for me it is easier if you do not manually edit the list created by the bot, but create a new page. and yes, the other pages go in a different list. ThomasV 23:55, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

3) will go through the list of "Unknowns" shortly and post then. Thanks!! - Introvert 22:56, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm the one (from Serbian wikisource) that edited the list. I'm sorry if that caused some inconveniences, but I gotta admit - people make mistakes. I skipped one Serbian and possibly took some Russian thinking they were Serbian. Apologies again. The reason behind all that is that I edited the list judging by the names and I possibly missed/omitted some. It would be easier if you told me the names, so we can "swap". Thanks. --Dungodung 23:17, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey, Dungodung no worries, we'll sort it out! OK, there's just one serbian that I found Настрадин дијели овнове and it's probably the one you noticed already. The two moved Russian ones are: Ни шагу назад, Три брата. I will update the Russian list - but would you take care of updating the serbian list please??

There is a one ambiguity: Оч͠е нашь "The Lord's Prayer in Old Church Slavonic"; should it go to Serbian? and also to Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian Eastern-European wikisources?

- Introvert 23:48, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I transfered Ни шагу назад as that was the only one that I found Russian. As for Serbian text in your possesion, I don't have time for that, but if you'd be so kind and tell me, it'd be easier. :) --Dungodung 23:32, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok. The Serbian list is updated and I've copied Оч͠е нашь and I think that it should be included in all languages that derived from the language this prayer was written in. :) --Dungodung 01:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

nl:

Checked all pages on the list and moved a few others into Category:Nederlands. One page found with a problem: it is already been moved to fr: ( Brabanconne ). The page has both French and Dutch lyrics of the Belgian national hymn. -- Quistnix 15:00, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

ok, the lyrics will go to nl too. since you did not create a list, I will assume that you do not want to move categories and templates, or pages in the wikisource namespace. ThomasV 15:16, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

en:

I've tried to view "pages in the main namespace" for en: (Thomas's bot) several times since yesterday with no success. Apparently, the page is just so huge that it's too big for my browser. I can see it for other languages with no problem, but that doesn't allow me to help very much :-). Any practical suggestions as to what should be done specifically to move things forward?Dovi 16:25, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

it should be ok now. english was split in 5 files. ThomasV 17:52, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I can see them now. When there's time I'll try to skim through parts of "All Pages" to see if I can find missing things. It's OK to then add them manually to the list, right?Dovi 17:09, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

no, do not modify the robot's list manually. never. add [[category:english]] to the missing pages. but I think I'll ask brion to do the transfer as soon as I catch him. ThomasV 17:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

OK. Good luck to you and Brion!Dovi 18:03, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

ok I just sent an e-mail to Brion. now wait until he wakes up... ThomasV 19:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Any luck? --CSN 23:24, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Any problem? --ajvol 14:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

no news so far. I guess it will be more efficient to talk to him on irc. I've been quite busy these days, however. ThomasV 15:17, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't seem to have got the above e-mail, but have done the split/import now since I was asked by irc. Will tweak up interwiki links etc shortly. --Brion VIBBER 01:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Making sysops on new wikis

For all people requested rights on new wikis, please create an account on these wikis and post a message on Meta : m:Requests_for_permissions#Admin_for_Wikisource. Thanks. Yann 19:50, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Note: This is most important for people who are listed as bureaucrat candidates at Language_domain_requests and received support votes.

Main page

Our main page is huge and I find it quite unpractical. I would like to change its appearance, so that it would look much more like the wikipedia main page at http://wikipedia.org/ There would be much less text, just a short few words, "The Free Library" or something like that. It should also give direct acces to subdomain main pages, when they exist. subprojects would be sorted according to the number of pages they have, like for wikipedia. Any suggestions? objections? Someone willing to help? ThomasV 17:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that a new page is needed now. See Main Page/New for a project. Yann 18:28, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Wonderful idea, Thomas! I've been hoping someone else thought the current Main Page was a bit unpractical. I think modelling it after the wikipedia one is a great idea. If I can help in any way, feel free to let me know.| 19:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

ok I wrote a first draft in Main Page/New. the logo in the middle can of course be changed. :-). waiting for feedback. ThomasV 22:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I replaced the main page. the previous one is in Main Page/Old ThomasV 21:54, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

The main page is absolutely outstanding!

The slogan "The Free Library" is also perfect, and something we should use to market ourselves.Dovi 07:40, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Ja: and Zh:

Ja: and Zh: look like they are ready to be launched. Shall we add them to the list for Brion?Dovi 04:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

they are already added to the list, as well as sv (see the table above).

but I do not want any new domain to be created before the lists of pages to be moved are ready; it was a pain to tell people not to move pages around, not to add pages etc.

I will wait until we have complete lists for en ja zh and nl before I contact brion again.

ThomasV 07:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't fully understand the significance of the table above. Now that I do, I better realize what a complicated job you are supervising! Wow.

Hopefully it will go forward soon. I have no personal need for ja: and zh:, I thought it would be nice to point out when I noticed the support votes. When it comes to en:, however, I have to admit I'm a bit impatient, as I imagine others are. Maybe this will be poetic justice for the Wikimedia world: The first project where other languages go first, and English has to wait... :-) .

En might take a while. At the moment, I'm busy (classes just started up again), and English has the largest assortment of categories and whatnot to move over, so it will be a bit slow. Unless anyone would like to help me add the trillion categories and other pages to my list, that is.| 13:39, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

en is also supposed to have the largest number of contributors, so I am sure they will help you. ThomasV 13:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but I'm still wondering why couldn't have already been done (or cannot still be done) as a "raw copy," like our original request said. Then things would work from the outset, and the deletion of all those categories and whatnot could be done as time goes on.Dovi 14:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

it is not better. templates and categories do not contain enough linguistic cues for the bot, so they must be sorted manually. but there isn't that many :-) and we still have to wait for the Dutch... ThomasV 14:58, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Thomas and Zaladshar - see if you can point to any clear explanation of tasks that have to be done (en:) and how to do them. At least we should publicize this! If the list already exists and I'm unaware, I apologize.Dovi 16:58, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

• there's a good deal of things to be done in the requests for deletions.
• otherwise, you can complete Z's list of english categories
• you can fix links everywhere
• if you know exotic languages, you can help the bot categorize them.
• if you know ja and chinese, help do the lists
• there is plenty of links to fix in the new created wikis
• you can advertise these tasks wherver you want

ThomasV 17:08, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I am preparing list of Chinese and Japanese pages to be moved. I will try to complete the lists in a moment.--Jusjih 01:01, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Chinese and Japanese pages are ready to be moved into their subdomains. I have finished the lists manually as I cannot use a bot.--Jusjih 02:44, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I found:

• User:Zhaladshar/List of articles to move to en.wikisource. Zhaladshar - wow, that is quite a list! I made some minor edits. The idea, if I understand correctly, is to search through the categories on "all pages" and decide which ones belong on that list?
• Wikisource:Proposed deletions - This page doesn't seem to have anything to do with domain moves. Is there a different link?

I think fixing links should be a lower priority that can be done over time in the domains. Especially since we don't even know what the links are going to look like. Let's write up a clear description of tasks with wikilinks right here on Scriptorium in English. Other languages can add their tasks too if they find it useful.Dovi 13:03, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Also: Does category:English still serve a purpose for the move to subdomains, or is that ancient history?Dovi 13:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

urgent question

if I edit a page with <pre class="verse">, then the class="verse" is not saved, or it disappears if it preexisted. is it bad? somebody knows why? please answer asap. ThomasV 15:00, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm not too sure what's going on, but I didn't think <pre class="verse"> existed. I thought it was under <div class="verse">. Could you point me to a page which has this problem?| 17:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I experienced this problem on the french wikisource... but you can do the test yourself :

blahblahblah
blahblahblah

and let me see this one:

blahblahblah blahblahblah

ThomasV 17:52, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I know how to fix it. After <div class="verse"> you have to put <pre> and </pre> right before <div>. I think Marc was the one who wrote that in our monobook, and I don't understand it very much (not that I've really tried), but that is how you work with it.| 17:57, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

like this?

blahblahblah
blahblahblah

ok it work. many thanks ThomasV 18:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

not moved!

This is the list of pages to reconstruct, it was not moved to http://pl.wikisource.org/:

---

To reconstruct (not moved to pl)

• Wikisource:Beletrystyka

I moved the remaining to pl.wikisource. Wikisource:Beletrystyka was marked as moved. Yann 20:21, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

---

Niki 02:53, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

could you please explain what this is? are these pages not in polish? where are they now? are we supposed to restore them? ThomasV 04:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

these pages are not moved to pl Niki 11:31, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

I restored these pages, because I suppose that it is what you wanted. now I would really like to have an explanation of what happened. why were these pages deleted? are you going to transfer them to the polish wikisource, or are they supposed to stay here? please answer. ThomasV 12:22, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Links to wikisource

Now I noticed on swedish wikipedia that links to wikisource is s:title on local wikisource, this is a bit of a problem since there are some articles that begins with S:t, I suppose that the problem is solved by moving those articles (or is it a more serious problem). This might be a problem on other wikipedias too, so maybe you want to look at that on your local wikipedia. /EnDumEn 13:24, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikisource:Logo: Will there ever be a new logo?

The page was started in November 04. Many people voted while new suggestions were made. Then somebody deleted the votes. There is now only a table of "Current Results", where I can't see how the votes have been counted. In December 04 a suggestion for a Logo selection procedure was made by Eclecticology. I think we should follow this suggestion. Let's define a deadline of September, 11 for new logo proposals. Then a vote until October, 8 for all variants of the logos and so on. --Jofi 23:22:56, 2005-08-30 (UTC)

Talk of the WMF: Wikisource languages!

Hi folks! I just stumbled upon this, and there may be others who haven't seen it yet:

• transcript of Wikimedia Foundation Meeting, 27 August

The meeting started with the announcement about the creation of 16 languages here at Wikisource. Enjoy.

Whoops, and I almost forgot to say thanks to Yann for giving us the high profile. This project needs publicity.Dovi 12:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

List to move to en

Is it possible for anyone to finish the list that I've started? My amount of free time right now is virtually nil, so I won't be able to finish the list for a while. But I don't want to hold up getting our subdomain. The list is here.| 14:46, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

if you estimate that the missing part is small enough, we could proceed with the move, and forgotten things will have to be copy-pasted manually.

since these are mostly templates and categories, I guess keeping track of their histories is less important than for articles.

ThomasV 15:14, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the biggest thing left now is images. There are a huge collection that CSN uploaded, and I'm sure they will all be broken when we move to en. Either they need to go to commons or to en, but staying here will be no good.| 03:56, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the best thing would be better to move them to commons anyway. Bogdan 11:42, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not really too much of a fan of commons. The whole idea of uploading images to one project to use them on another makes me a bit wary. We over here, who would be using those images, have no control over whether they get deleted over there. But I'll do what everybody would prefer.| 13:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

If you are talking about the Occulta Philosophia ones, just delete them. I still have the originals and I will reup whereever they need to be. I originally uploaded them here because they are specific to one work on source and will not be used by any other projects. User:Lusanaherandraton uploaded a set of them too which I don't have. Those will need to be moved. --CSN 13:24, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

On second thought, I added them to Zhaladshar's list. If they do belong on commons please just copy the list to my user space and I guess I will reupload them. I'm pretty sure I got all mine and Lusanaherandraton's. --CSN 13:37, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, those were the images I was talking about. Sorry, I was lazy and didn't feel like copying them to the list. (Not that I had free time to do so over the last week). I do think that that's about it on the list, and we are ready to move. Anything else can probably wait until the Import system is up and running. Can any other Wikisource users think of anything that I might be missing?| 15:03, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

It is not very bad if a few things are missing. it has been the case for other languages, and we just copy-pasted them manually.

One critical aspect is that people stop editing pages once they are moved, and before they are blanked.

I estimate that my bot will need at least 24 hours to write warnings and redirects to all moved pages.

I'll try to ask if developers can do this faster, but I cannot guarantee anything.

For my own schedule it is better to wait until wednesday. I have not enough time at the moment.

ThomasV 16:06, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

That's fine for me. I'm horridly busy for I don't know how long, so until my schedule evens out, I won't be too terribly active.| 16:11, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Bug doesn't move pages with questionmark at the end (done)

Pages like Groß willst du, und auch artig sein? aren't really moved. It is displayed at s:de:Special:Allpages with "Groß willst du, und auch artig sein?", but it isn't there. I'm not able to add a questionmark at german pages. Maybe this also happens with other special characters. --Jofi 16:34:17, 2005-09-02 (UTC)

this is a major bug. I observe the same for fr. I will report it to Brion. ThomasV 17:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

he was offline, but apparently the problem is known. I guess the pages have been moved. the ? in title that does not work anymore seems to be an apache configuration issue. ThomasV 17:36, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. As far as I could see, there are only 2 pages at de.wikisource with questionmark. The above and Kann der Neidische je wahrhaft glücklich sein ?. The problem doesn't occur with "!". So it's not a big problem at de. --Jofi 17:49:49, 2005-09-02 (UTC)

I don't know if it's already known: There is the same problem with interwiki links: [[en:Wikisource:What is Wikisource?]] does link to Wikisource:What is Wikisource. --Jofi 20:46:37, 2005-09-07 (UTC)

Now everything works fine. --Jofi 17:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikisource's article on Wikipedia

Today I updated Wikipedia's article on Wikisource (in English). Things are changing fast and furious around here, and so everyone is invited to further update/rewrite the article now and in the future, in English and in other languages. The article should help give people a clearer idea of what Wikisource is now, how it got there, and where it is going.Dovi 18:07, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Wiki 2 PDF

I've been trying to find a good way to read/print books on wikisource that span multiple pages. The other day I came across an app called Wiki2PDF which will convert a bunch of wikipedia pages into a PDF. With some modification, I was able to get it running for wikisource. Here are some sample PDFs I made: Works of Robert Howard, Works of H. P. Lovecraft, War of the Worlds - Book 1, and War of the Worlds - Book 2. The app has some limitations but works pretty well for plain text like the majority of the pages on wikisource. --CSN 01:10, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

That's a neat tool you've found! It would be great if we could turn Wikisource into PDFs. After all, we are a library, and what better way than to be able to download the files onto your own computer?| 01:14, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

this is awesome! how did you get it to work? the site says it's pretty broken... can you also choose the fonts? is it based on latex? ThomasV 10:01, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah the site does say that but doesn't elaborate. It is based on latex and is pretty configurable using templates. It recommends a default font but I suppose you could use others. It did take quite a bit of messing with. I put the code up here. Feel free to play with it. Just copy the files to your includes directory. You will also probably have to make a wiki2pdf directory in the images directory. And you will have to install the font they recommend as well as some version of pdflatex. I used MiKTeX which seems to work pretty well. After everything is installed, go to the Special:Export page and try it out. --CSN 12:14, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Site name and namespace

Discussion moved to Wikisource:Project namespaces

Redirects

Is there anyway to find the redirect pages here so that they can be created over at the English Wikisource?| 22:56, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki links

Thomas, you're usually in some sort of contact with Brion. Did he say whether he was going to fix the interwiki links to link to WS from other projects and vice versa? There are some templates on Wikipedia and such which need to be corrected, but currently, the English wikipedia does not link to the English wikisource.| 21:05, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

everybody is welcome to go on irc and nag developers; if you do it, it will be less work for me :-). I think that he said he would fix it, but he might have forgotten. note that afaik the french wikipedia does link to the french wikisource, so I guess the English one should be working as well. ThomasV 21:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay. I'll try to get IRC running on my laptop. What channel does Brion frequent?| 21:21, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

channel #mediawiki on freenode. but he's away at the moment ThomasV 21:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

I've put in quite a number of Wikipedia-Wikisource links, and they all seem to work fine.Dovi 04:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

You're right, Dovi. They do seem to work now. I guess either I couldn't figure it out, or Brion tweaked it.| 17:50, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

problem with some subdomains

I looks like we have had a problem with ko and zh : only a fraction of the pages have been moved (about 30%). I do not know where the problem comes from (maybe charset?). I tried to talk to developers about that, but they were not available. it would be great to know if transfer was complete for japanese, since it uses the same charset. in the meantime I left a note on these sites. It would be great if the people who requested those domains could check what the missing pages are, and report to developers ThomasV 21:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Is there any problem, when I set a temporary ko main page? Anyway, we have not much pages should be imported. --아흔 16:19, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I asked Brion to do the transfer once again. I suppose you can write to the main page, because it will not be overwritten by any other page. ThomasV 16:35, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

The transfer was OK in Russian Wikisource. --ajvol 20:32, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

ok, thanks for the info. I will blank the russian pages soon. ThomasV 21:31, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

It looks like this problem is fixed now. As far as I can see, all the requested pages are now on ko and zh. ThomasV 12:27, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Sitenotice

Current message seems to me too much anglo-centric. (I didn't want to go to en, but another project; and believe there are several people who share my situation). Not only en.wikisource, other language subdomains are better to be refered, even in other pages led with a link from sitenotice. --Aphaia 06:57, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

the current sitenotice is temporary. I will remove it once my bot has finished writing its redirects. I did not really bother writing the perfect multinlingual sitenotice, because I thought it is not worth the effort, since it will be removed in about 2 days. but if you have a constructive proposal, please do it. I have no time ThomasV 08:37, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Problem with getting a password

On the English WS, a regular contributor is having problems with the wiki sending him his password to log in. Whom should he contact about this?| 23:11, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I suppose he has to ask developers ThomasV 08:51, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Problems with transfer

When pages were copied to other sub-domains, were there a lot of pages which only had one entry in their history? A fair number of our pages have only one entry, when they should have more, and the single entries are sometimes very out of date. Has this happened to anybody else?| 02:44, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

ja.wikisource

Following articles are japanese, but they are not transferred to ja.wikisource. Please transfer them.

• Main_Page:日本語
• Talk:Main_Page:日本語
• 新約聖書
• Talk:新約聖書
• 官吏ノ勤續ニ關スル件
• 國民貯蓄奬励委員会官制を廃止する勅令
• 廢藩置縣ノ詔書
• 初恋
• 舞姫
• 舞姬
• 宇治拾遺物語
• 2000年国勢調査第14表
• Project:インターフェース言語の変更 (broken import)

--Tietew 05:27, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Please copy-paste them manually, and then blank them here, with [[Category:moved to ja]]. Sorry, but I do not want to nag developers for only 10 pages. complain to User:Jujish : he is the one who made the list for the transfer. ThomasV 06:21, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Brion tried to import Project:インターフェース言語の変更 again to s:ja:Project:インターフェース言語の変更 (thanks!) but it was broken again. Just for information. --Aphaia 09:15, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Please be specific about what's broken; it looks fine to me at the moment. --Brion VIBBER 03:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

It's fixed; deleted and undeleted. It seemed that page_latest contained invalid revision id.... --Tietew 10:20, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok, all Japanese articles have been copied. Ready to delete. Tietew 18:15, 17 September 2005 (UTC)